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View Full Version : Scion "taking a lot of risk"


Kenny
05-24-2004, 12:51 PM
http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/8039_image.jpg

Expect to see an aggressive schedule of new vehicles and major product updates from Toyota's youth-oriented Scion division. "We're going to have to take a lot of risk," said Jim Farley, Scion's general manager, and that means "significant product updates every year or two."

The challenge will be keeping the brand fresh and exciting, Farley acknowledged, so it continues to draw in the first-time and youthful buyers who have otherwise steered clear of the Toyota brand. "We have to be that contemporary window and door for the company," stressed Farley.

It was reasonably easy the first time, with products like the xA and xB, but the challenge will continue to get more difficult, Farley said during an interview with TheCarConnection. "The real test for Scion isn't the first generation, but the second and third generation of products." Scion will complete its national rollout over the coming summer, a process that will be underscored with the launch of its new tC. The coupe is the first product specifically designed for Scion, rather than a rebadged Japanese market Toyota.

A hybrid is one among the many products under study for Scion. The challenge will be to find a way to bring a gasoline-electric into the brand that's distinct from what more mainstream makers are offering - and that can recover the added cost of the complex hybrid hardware. Farley pointed to Nissan's Cube, a boxy Japanese-market crossover vehicle that has a hybrid version with separate electric motors on each wheel. That would be the sort of feature a Scion buyer might be willing to pay extra for, he suggested, though Farley quickly cautioned that Scion likely won't get a hybrid until at least 2008. -Paul A. Eisenstein

flat6
05-24-2004, 12:57 PM
They just need to put a hybrid into a cheap light sports car, "that would be the sort of feature a Scion buyer might be willing to pay extra for".

Kenny
05-24-2004, 12:59 PM
This car really reminds me of a 2 door Subaru Legacy GT- anyone else?

ichthus
05-24-2004, 03:49 PM
yeah, i can definitly see that, kenny. it certainly looks nice, but leaves Scion with no brand distinction. This will sit nicely along side the Xa, but doesn't have any family resemblance with the Xb. If they really want to make an impact, I'd think each car would need to be visually distinctive...make this one much more radical, for instance. having a car like the Xb in your showroom means you really can't assimulate it's design elements into your other products (or you'd end up with a bunch of tall looking '80-90's Volvo's). the Xa and Xc are too much like cheap toyotas.

The "mecca" project
05-26-2004, 07:21 AM
Brand distinction is better suited for pick em up trucks and luxury vehicles. Toyota is not taking a risk with all the money they make. It is a smart idea that need more flair than custom lights in the inside to catch on with. Toyota does not make Scion for profit, they make it to introduce buyers to Toyota or a jump to Lexus if possible. If Toyota was smart they'd just make good looking quality cars under the Toyota name and give the cars a set up that the aftermarket people will love.

Tom J.
05-26-2004, 10:25 AM
Seems that they're heading in the right direction, though. The Scion designs are looking way better, and updating the car like every two years to keep the model "fresh" is a smart move. But flat6 has the best idea, make a lightweight sportscar/hybrid.

The "mecca" project
05-26-2004, 10:54 AM
Actually Flat 6's idea is unrealistic.

Hybrid and light weight don't mix well unless you use exotic materials which of course jack up the price.

flat6
05-26-2004, 05:10 PM
Not sure what you mean, mecca:

Insight: 1850 lbs ( http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/honda_insight_5spdmt_2004/14429/style_specs.html )
Civic Coupe: 2436 lbs ( http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/honda_civiccoupe_hx5spdmt_2004/14140/style_specs.html )
Civic Hatchback: 2744 lbs ( http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/honda_civicsi_5spdmt_2004/14434/style_specs.html )

Civic Sedan Hybrid: 2661 ( http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/honda_civichybrid_5spdmt_2004/14022/style_specs.html )
Civic Sedan EX: 2564 ( http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/honda_civicsedan_dx5spdmt_2004/14078/style_specs.html )

Toyota Prius: 2890 lbs ( http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/toyota_prius_4doorliftback_2004/14428/style_specs.html )
Toyota Camry: 3142 lbs ( http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/toyota_camry_le_2004/14174/style_specs.html )

The difference isn't that big, and with technology advancing, it's not going to be a problem. Hybrids usually have a much smaller gas engine, reducing the weight, balancing the increase from the added electric engine. Light sports cars aren't really related to hybrid vs. non-hybrid, it's more of how much risk the company wants to take in thinking that the customers don't want countless creature comforts, safety gadgets, electronics, etc.

Tom J.
05-26-2004, 09:10 PM
Cool weight numbers, but you really can't count the Insight as much of an "appeal" car. The others, however, have a lot better customer appeal. A sportscar version could use the same platform and have a larger electric motor for better performance, like that Toyota concept, but not so radically designed and hopped up. 250 HP in a car that weighs 2,500 pounds or so would be a nice number, and still great on gas.

The "mecca" project
05-28-2004, 08:45 AM
Basically Tom summed it up...

Each car you used as an example don't have a hint of "sporty" let alone being a sports car. However who am I to say, before a car leaves the production line it is already outdated so with advances surley it is possible. However even with technology we've seen in concepts it isn't. Toyota has taken quite a few stabs at it with the c&c concept and things of that nature. Toyota's idea for Scion is below 20k I belive... They want it to be as affordable as possible and the 3g Mr2 though dated is 26k for light weight sports car...

Scion TC is in the right direction... You've got to make Scion tuner friendly.

Tom J.
05-28-2004, 10:26 AM
Kinda dated, yes.... but the concept behind it can be taken to a new level with a new platform. It shouldn't cost a whole lot to make a new model, or I should say, sportscar body, and use the hybrid platform. That could bring customer appeal towards hybrid cars even more than just the typical passenger models being offered at present.

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