Heh, I can only imagine what those Honda Execs look when they know this....:D

Salo scores one point again for Toyota in 3 races. And this time by outpacing and out lasting the Honda-shot BAR and Jordan, whose combined point is a great big 0....heh

More powerful and more reliable, how about that for a rookie company in F1 competition...

i hope toyota doesn't get good :mad: .

Originally posted by M3man
i hope toyota doesn't get good :mad: .

Too late...they are only going to get better....:D

What happened to Montoya? I missed the first part of the race...
I thought he had the pole.

Originally posted by 300ZX
What happened to Montoya? I missed the first part of the race...
I thought he had the pole.

The crowd's favourite Juan Pablo Montoya was not able to capitalise on his pole position at the Brazilian GP after he lost his front wing in a minor collision with Michael Schumacher at Turn Four. His team mate Ralf Schumacher fought on to finish second, while he was able to climb back through the field for fifth place.

i'd say Rubans was the crowd favorite, prophet...the race favorite was JPM

There were actually more Columbian there than Brazilian.....that's what I heard...

I didn't read that but I did read there was more support for JPM than RB.

Toyota may very well be the next challenger to step up next year at the rate they're going. Reminds me of Williams BMW 2000 all over again.

Originally posted by DriverGT
i'd say Rubans was the crowd favorite, prophet...the race favorite was JPM

That quote was COPIED directly from the F1 site, the better driver home-country driver is going to be the favorite.

Well, as I was watching the race, it bacame apparent to me that RB was the crowd favorite, but that's just what I picked up on, I could be wrong, however.

Especially since he was leading......

Originally posted by DriverGT
i'd say Rubans was the crowd favorite, prophet...the race favorite was JPM

I'm from Brazil, and Rubens was the crowd favorite, but Monotya has many many supporters here, because he's South American, and because his driving reminds us of Ayrton Senna. Since Rubens isn't really on a high-ride, people here were much more optimistic with Montoya than they were with Rubens.

Originally posted by RacingManiac
There were actually more Columbian there than Brazilian.....that's what I heard...

There were many Colombians, but us Brazilians outnumbered them easily. But we do cheer for Montoya almost as if he were Brazilian, that's why people thought there were more Colombians than there actually were.

Why is it that nobody talks about racing here?

[shake] BAR's chassis is shite and Jordan's doesn't seem a heck of a lot better. The en-jean is down on power and too light but apparently a whole new lump will debut in Montreal. Not exaclty a banner year but if they get things sorted out of there side of the coin, and Richards does as good a good as anticipated for BAR but hopefully this will be like Beneton's previous year and really improve drastically by the tail end of it.

Originally posted by Arcanjo
Why is it that nobody talks about racing here? F1 isn't really telivised in the states.

Originally posted by M3man
F1 isn't really telivised in the states.

What about the Speed Channel, or is it Speed Vision?

not everyone gets it, and it's nascar 90% of the day..

NASCAR is OK, but there's no way it's better than F1.

I feel sorry for you guys who don't get SC. BUt then again like some one mentioned aside from the rally, ALMS and F1 coverage your not missing much.

actually, nascar sucks spermy camel cock.

Originally posted by M3man
actually, nascar sucks spermy camel cock.

Oh yeah it does

Honda has engine problems because of a line of stupid desisions.
1. They pulled out of F1 some years ago without any real reason other than it wasn't in their interest any longer.
2. Coming back meant that they had to catch up and even though they made good and powerful engines they felt like they were making them too heavy - so they changed strategy.

From heavy and powerful they went to 3. Lightweight and small.

This all sounds good. - better weight distrubution - ofcourse lower wieght and giving an overall better car.

Now the problem was power. Without exotic materials and knowledge about small engines Honda are still developing the engine at high rate and rumours have told us that the engines power was tweaked down for better reliablity over performance.

Bar and Jordan are furious as their cars are better than ever but still they are stuck with a less powerful engine than last year.

It's a shame the guy in charge of the works Honda team program back in 99 died. That package was velly good. They even had Rock-Em-Sock-Em Jos in the cockpit.

I dunno if I would say BAR have reason to complain, for the past 4 years they've designed a sub par chassis. Jordan last year outscored BAR in their first year with Honda power. JOrdan has it a little more together. Athough Jordans future is bleak because if Honda buys out BAR then Jordan is left without an engine deal.

Originally posted by Nogger
Honda has engine problems because of a line of stupid desisions.
1. They pulled out of F1 some years ago without any real reason other than it wasn't in their interest any longer.
2. Coming back meant that they had to catch up and even though they made good and powerful engines they felt like they were making them too heavy - so they changed strategy.

From heavy and powerful they went to 3. Lightweight and small.

This all sounds good. - better weight distrubution - ofcourse lower wieght and giving an overall better car.

Now the problem was power. Without exotic materials and knowledge about small engines Honda are still developing the engine at high rate and rumours have told us that the engines power was tweaked down for better reliablity over performance.

Bar and Jordan are furious as their cars are better than ever but still they are stuck with a less powerful engine than last year.

First of all...the Honda engine since their initial return, was never powerful....heavy yes, but not really powerful in any significant way....And for the last few races this season, BAR and Jordan actually was running the engine in qualifying trim in the races simply because this new Honda isn't making the power it needs.....

And all that still doesn't explain how a company like Toyota, with 0 F1 experience what so ever, is beating Honda so far in every race.....

I'd say it's two different things. Toyota tested for how many years now before getting on the pony? More-over though, Honda isn't responsible for anything other then the engine and very little else AFAIK. Still, not good enough. They know that though and the head honchos are probably very angry.

With they not responsible for developing anything else, You'd think they'd have ample time to develop a more competitive engine package BEFORE they enter the frey........Toyota carrying the entire package development, and they've only tested a brand new F1 engine for a bit more than a year, and they are getting results like this.....Honda gotta ask themselves, what went wrong...

I was trying to make a point but I kinda messed up. well, Toyota has had far more time at developing thier conventional engine.
Honda has simply had bad luck and Toyota good. I'd wait to the end of the season to justify which team is the better.

ok. Change the word "powerful" to "reliable". I meant powerful in comparision to their new engine.

"Of the latest evolution of the Honda V10, Sato said: "I can already feel more power and top end so I am hopeful for the next races. Honda is working hard to make the engine even better and I am sure they will get there. "

It's a mistery why Honda hasn't been able to produce an engine. Same can be said for Cosworth really. Last season the second half the Jaguar improved and showed promise of some circuits. Hockenhiem practice was the first indicator of that. I would say Cosworth is in the same boat.

yeah. And it says "TITANIC" all over the side of it

Originally posted by Nogger
I was trying to make a point but I kinda messed up. well, Toyota has had far more time at developing thier conventional engine.
Honda has simply had bad luck and Toyota good. I'd wait to the end of the season to justify which team is the better.

ok. Change the word "powerful" to "reliable". I meant powerful in comparision to their new engine.

"Of the latest evolution of the Honda V10, Sato said: "I can already feel more power and top end so I am hopeful for the next races. Honda is working hard to make the engine even better and I am sure they will get there. "

What exactly do you based that statement for Toyota has far more time to develop their engine?

People from Honda have said that the engine is not fully tested unlike Toyota who have worked more with theirs.
Toyota had time to test their car last year unlike Honda who first tried the whole new package out in the pre season tests.
The construction with a superlightweight 90 degree engine is new and so far not fully tested.
Toyota, as I said, has a conventional engine the first year to get a platform and by doing that they take less risks.
To answer your question: Less test time - new concept

well. far more is an exegeration (sp?), but fact are that Toyotas plan of their engine has been run for a very long time and the engines are constantly getting updated and Honda are struggling with thier engine.
Shit. I can't answer the question. I read it somewhere.


It's ashame that Honda with a huge budget can't make more of the money.
I read today that the engine infact didn't differ that much from the old one. It's all a shame. The search for HP carries on...

That shows you exactly what the problem is. WHY Honda can't do what Toyota did? Why can't they test their engine ahead of time? Why can't they update their engine more often? Before you say Toyota has much more budget than Honda(which it does, by the way), Toyota's budget are used to develop entire package, from chassis, aero, electronic and everything, while Honda, all it is responsible for, is to develop an engine for 4 cars.....

bingo

although according to F1 magasine, Honda are likely to have an even bigger budget than Toyota. Toyota are starting from scratch and as they seek top three results within a year they inevitably have to build everything under 1 roof. They cost of the facilities and the base development cost raise to such amount, there is no way you can from the outside guess the share of money the enginedepartement has gotten.

ahhhhh!!!!! HOnda sucks. the only reason that i got very (i mean very little) respect for them, is that they're the engine the powers the McLaren to the 15 out 16 GP wins in 1988. but personally i think they win that much coz of the drivers, not to say the engine didnt play a part at all. ermm... it's like 60% machine 40% human, unlike todays 80% machine 20% human.

oh forget it, i'm just babling.....