Rising to the Challenger: Detroit auto show debut for Dodge muscle coupe concept

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103629



Discuss...

The shot from the front looks kinda funky but I like it from the rear.

I'll have to read the article. If they put a bad ass little motor in it, it might be cool to have a newer version.

Looks like the old challenger alot. Finally dodge gives a car the 6.1L Hemi with a fuking manuel. The new SRT-8's with an automatic is just plain stupid. Would be a great battle Dodge's all new Challenger vs. Ford's new Mustang GT 500. I'm drooling just thinking about it. :D And you need to change the title of this thread you said charger not challenger.

That is beautiful! I am so going to buy one! AWESOME!

If I had to guess a price I guess 35-45k. I love to guess to performance stats so here I go. 0-60 in 4.5 0-100 9.5 1/4mile in the mid 12's. These numbers coming from what a SRT-8 charger runs and subtracting about about 400-600pounds.

I wouldn't expect that much weight off. For some reason Chrysler likes to build pigs out of their cars (I guess we'll see though)...it looks pretty good, nonetheless... they still move pretty well too.

they could have a winner here. not 300C winner but something that competes well in the pony car market, assuming they can get the price right and perfect the styling.

I think a SRT8 version would look pretty badass. I hope they go through with it. I can't complain about more performance cars getting out there.

These numbers coming from what a SRT-8 charger runs and subtracting about about 400-600pounds.
Dude, you're crazy. The 300C and Magnum weigh about 4100 lbs. The Charger weighs 3600 lbs. How is that car supposed to lose 400-600 pounds? I'm sure it's based off the same platform. 3500 lbs minimum. 0-60 in the low 5's. 1/4 in the low 13's. But you never know. It might be a legit 12-second player.

Dude, you're crazy. The 300C and Magnum weigh about 4100 lbs. The Charger weighs 3600 lbs. How is that car supposed to lose 400-600 pounds? I'm sure it's based off the same platform. 3500 lbs minimum. 0-60 in the low 5's. 1/4 in the low 13's. But you never know. It might be a legit 12-second player.

Well the charger weighs way more then that. It weighs 4266pounds. So this challenger as the 6.1L Hemi which is the SRT-8 motor and as 2 doors next to the chargers 4doors. So it will be atleast 400pounds lighter. The charger numbers are 0-60 in 5.1 and the 1/4mile in mid 13's. And I was told that it will be released late next year.

I like how it looks! I like the 6.1 Hemi! It's gonna eat Mustangs for breakfast and GTOs for lunch and Imports as snacks and so on and so forth!

If this car comes out in 06 there is going to be one serious muscle car battle between Ford's Mustang GT500 and Dodge's Challenger. Both packin over 400HP.

If this car comes out in 06 there is going to be one serious muscle car battle between Ford's Mustang GT500 and Dodge's Challenger. Both packin over 400HP.

Does the GT500 have a S/C...if so I think it will win. You know Ford...ain't fast unless super charged. j/k

It weighs 4266pounds. So this challenger as the 6.1L Hemi which is the SRT-8 motor and as 2 doors next to the chargers 4doors. So it will be atleast 400pounds lighter.

2 doors will not equate to 400 lbs. BMW built its M3 sedan with the same weight as the coupe. If they are losing that much weight it will be through different materials, possibly different engineering of the chassis (i dont see it happening), and whatever they can scrounge out of the interior. Getting it down to 3800lbs. should not an issue...but taking two doors off ain't gonna do it by itself.

The GT500 will have the advantage of a pulley/intake/exhaust swap to net it close to 550hp (possibly 600hp, definitely with a ported blower) at the flywheel. GM needs to hurry up and get there damn 5th gen Maro out there with a LS2, a 12-bolt, IRS, and no more than 3350lb. curb weight-yeah, I'm asking for all of that. :)

It's nice to see power out of cars these days. With all the displacement, the turbochargers, superchargers, it's just awesome. The EVOs, STis, the Z06, the new GT500 coming...I'm just glad it's coming back in spite of the high gas prices. I hope it stay this way for a long time.

I don't think you are getting what I'm saying. I'm comparing the charger SRT-8 with the new challenger because they will have the same engine. And since I know how the charger performs and well over 4000pounds and seeing how the challenger is only 2doors it should be well under 4000pounds. And the new GT500 will be supercharged and be between 450-500HP. Get out my GT500 thread I have video of the engine in a 05 mustang with Carrol Shelby driving it.

wow i like it alot. it reminds me of the ol charger.

It's nice to see power out of cars these days. With all the displacement, the turbochargers, superchargers, it's just awesome. The EVOs, STis, the Z06, the new GT500 coming...I'm just glad it's coming back in spite of the high gas prices. I hope it stay this way for a long time.

It is nice...but how many more years of gas do we have left?

Depends on if these ****ing environmentalists finally allow us to drill fro oil in our own country.

The Challenger will be shorter than the 300C/Charger/Magnum triplets. And yes, all of those cars weigh about 4200 lbs.

I figure 3800 lbs for the Challenger as well. With high-12 second performance and a $35,000 price-tag. I'll be the first in line for one.

Depends on if these ****ing environmentalists finally allow us to drill fro oil in our own country.

The Challenger will be shorter than the 300C/Charger/Magnum triplets. And yes, all of those cars weigh about 4200 lbs.

I figure 3800 lbs for the Challenger as well. With high-12 second performance and a $35,000 price-tag. I'll be the first in line for one.

There is magazine with the challenger on the front and it says a 6.4L hemi yours for 28,000. I'll try to find what magazine it is.

the SXT with 340hp will start in mid 20s
the RT with 425 hp, low 30s
and the SRT with 505hp will be upper 30s low 40s.
I'll take black, please.

More pics

I better start figuring out how and when I'm going to sell the Fairlane so I can buy that awesome machine. If those prices and performance levels are accurate, the Challenger is going to be the new king of the street.

I WILL buy one when it comes out.

that's a damn nice looking car, chrysler finally got their shit down..Now the big problem should I get this or the GT500? That shifter is sick

That's an excellent question. For me, the answer is going to come down to dealer markup. I will not pay a dealer markup. The Cobra is more likely to carry a hefty premium which leads me to the Challenger. But Dodge dealerships are going to smell blood too the moment one of those things hits the showroom.

Here is what I am going to consider, and what I think all of you should as well. None of us are going to leave well enough alone. So the first things we're going to do is figure out how to extract more power from these things. Which brings me to the point. The Hemi engine has not been known for being very durable much beyond the factory rated HP. In fact, many of the motors are just plain brittle.

Whereas... The Cobra will be capable of 1000+ HP bone stock, the Challenger engine may not be able to hold up much beyond the factory rating. However, if what I have heard is true, and Dodge will be putting a detuned version of the upcoming 392 Hemi race crate motor in there, then there should be no reason why we shouldn't be able to go back in there and pump it up to crate Hemi specs and beyond without sacrificing durability.

So it all depends. What's the premiuim going to be, and how much power potential do each one have? As a Die-Hard Ford fanatic and Cobra advocate, it is difficult for me to sway my decision. However, right now, I am leaning towards the Challenger...

Cyco

One more thing...

I somehow doubt they will place a 505 HP 392 Hemi into a 6-speed Challenger and sell it for $40K. I would be very surprised if the actual lineup doesn't mimic the existing LX chassis lineup of 3.5, 5.7, and 6.1 respectively. All within the same price-point that grinner mentioned. I would imagine a 505 HP version with all the bells and whistles would be closer to $60,000. From a marketing aspect, if the car is rare enough, it would be a viable marketing tactic. Just think what a 505 HP SRT Challenger at $40,000 would do to Viper sales. But in the same light, imagine what it would do to Z06 Corvette and especially Shelby Cobra sales.

If they go upwards of 60k I would most likely lean towards the shelby myself..You do make a valid point about how much the motor can handle though. I have no doubt in my mind that the cobra block will be able to handle insane amounts of power without flaw. But as far as the challenger..It's been quite some time since chrysler has came out with a decent muscle car so it's really hard to say what it will be able to handle. but with the computers and EFI and all of that they may have pushed the most out of it they could from the factory...

I'm kind of leaning towards the GT500. But the Challenger looks great and its a great idea. But the GT500 could easily be makeing 550HP since its already supercharged from the factory. For about $2500 you will have a low 12 to high 11second Shelby Cobra. But the challenger will have to grow on me with more info.

505 hp bone stock has alot of ptential, ya gotta admit.
granted the new hamis don't take mods very well but as soon as a supercharger is available for the 505 hp engine, it's gonna freakin scream.

505 hp bone stock has alot of ptential, ya gotta admit.
granted the new hamis don't take mods very well but as soon as a supercharger is available for the 505 hp engine, it's gonna freakin scream.

Hennessey Performance with probably have one out pretty quick. They have had one's for the SRT-8 cars for like 2months or so.

But will it freakin scream right into the grave? Boost and Hemi's don't mix well. Blown head gaskets, fried spark plugs and even splintered blocks have resulted from boosting a Hemi. Aftermarket companies have to go to great lengths in thier kits for superchargers and turbos, adding complex engine management controls, extra fuel injectors, and custom spark plugs just to run 10 psi of boost. Nicky B is right, the Cobra, with just a pulley, computer chip, air filter and exhaust ($2500 worth of mods) will be quite a monster. And while Nicky seems to be underestimating the results, quoting a mere 550 HP, I would think 650-700 HP would be easily attainable with those simple mods. Who knows, maybe a computer tune, a camshaft, and an inlet and exhaust upgrade will net similar results on the Challenger. For me, I would stick to solid naturally aspirated mods and then add nitrous to the Challenger. There's no reason you couldn't make 650 HP on the motor alone and then add a progressive 250 HP shot of juice on top of that. 9-second daily driver anyone? But the formula is so proven with the Cobra, it's only going to be a matter of days before somebody is cresting 1000 HP and running low-9's on street tires with a Shelby. I don't know. Now I'm thinking Shelby...

Have they even completely cracked the ECM/PCM parameters for tuning yet on these new Hemis?

Damn fine looking car. I could use an aggressive looking car parked next to my sleeper GTO. I will be looking into these cars once they hit the market as well.

Todd

nope nobody has cracked it yet. One dude, making one0off turbos for em (at 12k a pop and a 2 month wait) claims to have but at least at this point, no reprogramming chip is offered.
Nicky, at more than 17 grand, I seriously doubt they make the 50 they say they will for 2006. Even the 10k model... that's just nutty.
Perhaps with more success stories but most I have heard so far have just been engine replacements due to dammage.

But will it freakin scream right into the grave? Boost and Hemi's don't mix well. Blown head gaskets, fried spark plugs and even splintered blocks have resulted from boosting a Hemi. Aftermarket companies have to go to great lengths in thier kits for superchargers and turbos, adding complex engine management controls, extra fuel injectors, and custom spark plugs just to run 10 psi of boost. Nicky B is right, the Cobra, with just a pulley, computer chip, air filter and exhaust ($2500 worth of mods) will be quite a monster. And while Nicky seems to be underestimating the results, quoting a mere 550 HP, I would think 650-700 HP would be easily attainable with those simple mods. Who knows, maybe a computer tune, a camshaft, and an inlet and exhaust upgrade will net similar results on the Challenger. For me, I would stick to solid naturally aspirated mods and then add nitrous to the Challenger. There's no reason you couldn't make 650 HP on the motor alone and then add a progressive 250 HP shot of juice on top of that. 9-second daily driver anyone? But the formula is so proven with the Cobra, it's only going to be a matter of days before somebody is cresting 1000 HP and running low-9's on street tires with a Shelby. I don't know. Now I'm thinking Shelby...

Well I thought the factory supercharger is designed to only to able to handle so much boost. I'm still guessing 575-600HP at the most. Then I would add 100shot of nitrous and there is a low 10 second car.

Where'd you hear that? The stock blower has been spun up to over 30 psi of boost and over 700 RWHP. It's just not as efficient as the twin screw designs. So no, there is no limit on how much boost the stock blower can make, but there is a limit to how much power you can make with the stock blower. But it's well beyond 575-600 HP.

Cyco

wait wait wait
theres a stock blower??
my head is spinning. tell me more.

I'm talking about the Shelby.

that makes much more sense

In addition to Cobra vs. Challenger, isn't there going to be a Chevy option too, eventually?

eventually.
They like to stay at least 7 years behind the times.

Well, the original Camaro trailed the Mustang by a few years too, spring 1964 vs. fall 1966 as a '67 model.

eventually.
They like to stay at least 7 years behind the times.
Reeeeally.

Is that why it took ford 3 years to build a stock GT mustang that would perform as well as the Fbody..

you know the car that at its demise carried a live axle and 320 horsepower, while ford stuck it's top level mustang with IRS..

so yeah, 3 years later Ford builds a Live axle car with balls and it's an epiphany :rolleyes:

and yeah, dodge built a pony for the masses.. wait, wasn't that truck that ate transmissions?

lets see, bandwagons are for morons.

feel free to jump on any you wish. :rolleyes:

Umm, I thought this thread was called "Challenger".

I would never buy a Chevy anyway, so whatever. The new Callenger is definitely going to "challenge" the Shelby. If Chevy builds another Slowmaro, it will probably be stuck with the corporate LS-series setup. And since they would never put the LS7 in a Slowmaro, we're going to be stuck with a maximum of 400 horses. Which would have been awesome a few years ago, but with these new offerings from Ford and Dodge, Chevy is going to have to seriously take a look at it's gameplan if it wants to compete.

Cyco

I'm sorry :redface:

I just get tired of constantly hearing how we're 7/6/4 *whatever* years behind when the General had it right in '02...

The only camaro I would every own would be a 68' Yenko camaro. 0-100mph in 10seconds know thats fast for 1968.

The only camaro I would every own would be a 68' Yenko camaro. 0-100mph in 10seconds know thats fast for 1968.

I'd like a '67-'69 302 Z-28. It might not be a dragster like a Yenko or COPO, but it was a well-balanced road car for its time.

Umm, I thought this thread was called "Challenger".

Thread drift is a natural byproduct of these discussions. After all, these cars don't exist in a vacuum, they're going to be compared to their competition.

I would never buy a Chevy anyway, so whatever. The new Callenger is definitely going to "challenge" the Shelby. If Chevy builds another Slowmaro, it will probably be stuck with the corporate LS-series setup. And since they would never put the LS7 in a Slowmaro, we're going to be stuck with a maximum of 400 horses. Which would have been awesome a few years ago, but with these new offerings from Ford and Dodge, Chevy is going to have to seriously take a look at it's gameplan if it wants to compete.



Didn't you yourself say that the Hemi has little if any potential for performance upgrades? And if the 300 and Charger are any indication, that chassis has little potential for handling or roadholding performance either. Oh, and doesn't that Mercedes E-Class-based platform have, wait for it, IRS???

Looks like a repeat of the '60s again, with Chrysler coming to the game with an inferior platform and a decent engine. Only this time the engine will blow up if you try to breathe on it.

Didn't you yourself say that the Hemi has little if any potential for performance upgrades? And if the 300 and Charger are any indication, that chassis has little potential for handling or roadholding performance either. Oh, and doesn't that Mercedes E-Class-based platform have, wait for it, IRS???

Looks like a repeat of the '60s again, with Chrysler coming to the game with an inferior platform and a decent engine. Only this time the engine will blow up if you try to breathe on it.

I don't even understand what your talking about...so...STFU! No soup for you! Come back in 1 month!

I don't even understand what your talking about...so...STFU! No soup for you! Come back in 1 month!

Okay, I'll clarify.

(1) Cyco is on record as saying that the Hemi tends to blow up if you modify it for more horsepower, so the Challenger won't be much fun for people who like to hotrod their muscle cars.

(2) The 300, Magnum, and Charger handle like shit, and the Challenger is based on the same platform.

(3) This platform, based on the Mercedes E-Class, has Independent Rear Suspension. The guys with drag racing backgrounds apparently don like IRS.

So, based on (1) and (3) I don't see why Cyco is creaming over this car. (He won't care about (2)... :))

(4) In the 1960s muscle car era, MOPAR had nothing but big engines, wild styling, and funny colors. Their chassis were crap. MOPAR was only good on the dragstrip, anything with the torsion bar front suspension was a pig around the corners. Here's hoping that the Challenger isn't a repeat of the past.

Ok, I'll retort...

1) But that doesn't mean the new 396 Hemi will be weak. My guess is that it will be capable of massive power. And although the 345 Hemi has proven to be brittle under pressure, the 6.1 hasn't really been tested yet. So we'll see.

2) The 300, Magnum and Charger do NOT handle like shit. I don't know where you get your information from, but the 300C SRT-8 handles extremely well. As would any of the SRT8 variations, so that argument is bunk.

3) If the Challenger comes with an IRS (doubt it) then we'll just have to swap it out with a real axle like all the 03-04 Cobra guys do. Trust me, sooner or later, there will be a kit. But here's to hoping they get it right and slide a solid axle under there.

4) Mopar won more racing events than anybody in 1968 and 1969 so that's just total B.S.

So I'm creaming over what the Challenger "could" be. They could just as easily **** it all up and I'll either keep what I have or buy a Shelby.

Cyco

4) Mopar won more racing events than anybody in 1968 and 1969 so that's just total B.S.



Only in NHRA and NASCAR. They couldn't compete in SCCA. 'Cudas were never the match for Camaros, Mustangs, or even Javelins in Trans Am racing.

MOPARS were pigs on the road.

MOPARS were pigs on the road.

I don't know...but I'll tell what I do know...






















The HEMI is the best engine EVER!!!!! hahahahahahahahahaha

2) The 300, Magnum and Charger do NOT handle like shit. I don't know where you get your information from, but the 300C SRT-8 handles extremely well. As would any of the SRT8 variations, so that argument is bunk.



I haven't driven them myself, so I suppose I should reserve comment. But a few friends whose judgement I trust have test driven them and found them wanting. Of course these were import guys so either (1) they're prejudiced, or (B) their standards are higher than Chrysler's target audience. One of them drives an E55 AMG, which shares a platform with the SRT8, and he thought it was a sad joke. Also, the road tests in C&D and R&T have been pretty lukewarm about the chassis development of these cars. They look bad on paper too, skidpad and slolom numbers aren't impressive. The Charger got a whopping 0.77g on the skidpad in this month's R&T, that's '86 Yugo territory.

3) If the Challenger comes with an IRS (doubt it) then we'll just have to swap it out with a real axle like all the 03-04 Cobra guys do. Trust me, sooner or later, there will be a kit. But here's to hoping they get it right and slide a solid axle under there.



Is there any indication that the Challenger is going to receive a major re-engineering of the Mercedes E-Class platform shared with the 300, Magnum, and Charger? They all have IRS, what indication is there that they would change that for one model? Just to make the drag racers happy?

It has officially been unveiled....

After numerous rumors and leaks, DaimlerChrysler today officially announced the new Dodge Challenger Concept, on display this week at the Detroit auto show. The car features a 425 horsepower 6.1L Hemi, capable of propelling the car to 60 mph in just 4.5 seconds, and through the quarter mile in 13. Top speed is 174 mph.

It has officially been unveiled....

I think with a good driver you could get into the high 12's. But the challenger unfortunitly doesn't look strong enough to beat the GT500 mustang.

It's not.

I agree, with a good driver, you'll be in the high 12's stock. A few aftermarket goodies and deep into the 12's. Add some nitrous and easy bottom 11's.

However, compared to the upcoming GT500, that's peanuts. The GT500 will run mid to low 12's stock. Add a few aftermarket goodies and you're in the 11's. Add some more boost and you're deep into the 10's.

The GT500 is going to be a much faster, much more capable car that the Challenger is. The Challanger will not be a challenge for the GT500...

Cyco

BTW, the IRS is confirmed... :)

I like how it looks! I like the 6.1 Hemi! It's gonna eat Mustangs for breakfast and GTOs for lunch and Imports as snacks and so on and so forth!
I'm gonna eat it evrey day as I drive to school that is a mighty machine you would drive whan you were 3

I like how it looks! I like the 6.1 Hemi! It's gonna eat Mustangs for breakfast and GTOs for lunch and Imports as snacks and so on and so forth!
How's that? The Ford GT500 is going to hand that thing it's ass...

Jesus Christ guys! Chill the f**k out!

It's ok....I'm sure the Z06 will put a hurting on the GT500....

It's sad all of Ford's vehicles have to have forced induction to compete....although the GT500 will be one bad ass car, I'd rather have the Z06 with 505 HP over the GT500's 450+ HP motor. Although it will be interesting to see how the GT500 is priced, considering the price for the most powerful Mustang Ford has produced was around $40,000. I guess I'll wait to see how they price it before I knock it, but if it is the same price as the Z06 you know where my vote is going.


Anyway, back to the topic at hand:

It is being said that the Challenger can/waill be available within 18 to 24 months if the upper management gives the thumbsup to produce it. Keep your fingers crossed, as I'd love to see these things on the road in the near future.

I predict July.
I look for preordering to be available within the next two months. We at challegerforums.net are all waiting...
I can't wait to tear this car up.